Saigon On LQBTQ+ Acceptance and Sex Education

PODPAST FOR AVP(MARCH 19)

[00:00:00]

Niall (2): My guest today says she’s just another lesbian in town, but she is actually the owner of Twist Coffee Bar in Tine, the place by everyone, but also a safe space for LGBTQ plus. A recent story in Vietnam ran with a headline. It’s not working. Sex education makes teachers and students squirm followed up by another story about a parent finding a 12-year-old child had been watching pornography.

So today with my guest, we’re gonna be discussing many things about Vietnam, but specifically we’re gonna be talking about sex education here in Vietnam. So my guest today, thank you so much for joining me, is F thank you.

Phuong Truong: Thank you now and hello to everybody. I hope you have a good day. I mean, after this you will have a better day, I hope.

Niall (2): Well, so tell me more about Twist Cafe because it’s, a hopping spot. I see frequently. I’ve tried your cocktails. I. Which are delicious. So tell [00:01:00] us more about that. How did that start and how’s it going?

Phuong Truong: So I, last month it was six years of me having the, the, the business. But the bar, which is like roughly about two year and a half, three years.

’cause before it was a, a coffee shop and the first day it’s actually we, me and my ex partner, which is running a tricycle on the street, selling some coffee. And then after the first year, we move into a space, and then, then since that moment on, I always have space up to this day. And yeah. And, and, and after that we have a missing is breakup.

So I, I now the, the whole thing is mine. I just wanna turn it into something more, me more welcoming and, and more LGBT friendly.

Niall (2): And you know, when you started that six years ago, did you say?

Phuong Truong: Yeah.

Niall (2): [00:02:00] So now you know, Saigon is a very opening and open and welcoming place in my opinion. I’d be interested to hear though, because it’s different, but where you must have been really at the forefront of having a specifically LGBTQ plus friendly location.

Phuong Truong: Yeah, I think, well actually it just turned, it’s just turned into A-L-G-B-T friendly bar about three years ago before I have a, a, French partner and his quite traditional French business partner. So we focus in healthy and serving every customer. I’m still serving every customer, but. I know that I wanna, I wanna focus in serving my people for my community.

Niall (2): So as I mentioned

Phuong Truong: there few, yeah. And it, yeah. And then six years ago, I think there’s a few, maybe a few, but very rare listen that [00:03:00] have the LGBT elements in it, to be honest.

Niall (2): So what, what did that mean then? What was the change from being traditional, as you said? So then being lgbtq plus friendly, like how did that, what did that change mean for the business?

How did that look like in real life?

Phuong Truong: So I think it’s a really big job. At the beginning it was just coffee. We just selling coffee. And then after I have the business breakup, I don’t wanna do the same thing, like he we did before. So I wanna find the missing a little bit and. I arrange, a bigger space, and then I try to make it like as gay as I can and then as, charismatic as I can.

So I put on paintings and black and making sure that I’m there every day that, people know that it is owned by the gay and it’s, you [00:04:00] know. The amount of customer change and people start to drink alcohol and, and I never know what, like serving alcohol and then they have a bot and then you understand, and then you become alcoholic and then you have fun basically every day.

You know, I love my job.

Niall (2): That’s awesome. In that process, did you lose any customers? Were there any customers that were turned off and, and didn’t come back?

Phuong Truong: No. I don’t think so if they, if they don’t come, but I think it’s because maybe I fucked up with the coffee one time, two times, or my staff being, or something like that.

Or maybe they move out of the country or it’s just not there place at the beginning. I don’t think, the fact that I turn it into more will make me lose any customer. I think it make me gain more customer than lose customer.

Niall (2): Yeah, no, I know. I, I can see that from how busy it is every time I go by. I mean, it’s good to know that you didn’t have any kind [00:05:00] of, obviously bigoted people.

But, so my, that leads me into my next question because, so I’ve been here six years and from what I can see and from what I’ve heard from other people, but I, I, you know, I could be wrong, is that Saigon, and I don’t know about the rest of Vietnam, and I’m sure it’s very different in the country, but Saigon being a big, busy.

Cosmopolitan for Vietnam City. It’s very welcoming, oft LGBTQ plus community from, from one thing I’ve learned in the past, and I, I don’t know if this is true though, that it’s more that people almost turn a blind eye to it. So it’s not that it’s, there’s not maybe so much open discrimination, but there’s also not maybe as much.

Acceptance of it as a thing if, if that makes sense. Someone told me this before, it’s just maybe for more older, traditional Vietnamese, they won’t recognize that, that you’re gay or whatnot. It’s just that they’re okay with it. Is that, is that an accurate depiction or am I completely false there?

Phuong Truong: I think it’s also depend on, on who are we talking [00:06:00] about, like which generation are we talking about?

So if, if we are talking about the older generation, for example, my mom, people in their 60, 70, you know, like really old from people, maybe 40, then it’s going to be a little bit different the way they look at us, you know? But. For in general, we got accepted way, much more and, and, and I came out very early.

I came out when I was 18 I think. So I, and then it’s been like 10 years I can, and I can see the, the progress of of, of gay, gay person, like living in Saigon.

Also because I have a boss, so I know a lot of people, I see a lot of people every day at different age, different generation, but mostly like people my age or a little bit younger. Even my staff, they like in their 20, like they’re 21, [00:07:00] 22 now. They’re super open about it. I mean, some of them still have the kind of oh my God, I can’t turn gay.

Oh my God. I was almost gay and I was like. Good for you. I mean, I think gayness turn you down, not you turn gayness down. like laughing, you know, what does that mean though? I

Niall (2): almost went gay. What does that mean?

Phuong Truong: Yeah, she, she was like, oh my God. When I first time I break up with my first boyfriend and I was so sad.

So I got on Tinder and I almost have a relationship with a woman. I almost go and see her and probably will have sex with her. And I was like, oh my God, you miss that Jen?

Like really?

Phuong Truong: But it, it’s, it’s, it was fun. It was a lady, they have different mindset, but very open right now. Like all of them are basically like, pretty open.

They’re own, they actually, I mean, maybe first time they see you, they will feel like a little bit like not, not feeling well with [00:08:00] their eyes. For example,why you’re born, you look like a boy. Why are you born? You look like this. This is so bizarre. After a while, you know, I think after times of interacting and talking and they would just understand also, it’s not their business.

Usually they’re just like, eh, it’s okay. I’ll just look a little bit Vietnamese. People like to look, they like to stay. We like to stay it.

I’ve noticed you

Phuong Truong: something that is what thing, like not normal then who would just look like looking at a white guy? Or like a, a plaque or you know,

Niall (2): do you know the phrase rubbernecking?

Phuong Truong: No. What does it

Niall (2): mean? So this is a phrase and I apply this, like you said, Vietnamese people love to stare. I apply this often. There’s like an accident on the road or maybe even like a fight by the side of the road or something happens. You know what? It’s like Vietnamese traffic. Everybody stops, like [00:09:00] everyone stops to look and see what’s happening.

So because you have to turn your neck so quickly to to look, it means rubberneck. Like your neck is made of rubber. So you look really quickly to see what is happening. So I, I’ve always seen this, the Vietnamese people love to rubble neck where, where they stop in traffic to like, see what’s going on, and suddenly there’s more danger because everyone stopped to see the accident rather than the, the accident.

So I can imagine what you’re say about a Vietnamese people looking, but it’s so this is, I think it’s just such an amazing thing that I’ve seen over the years that I’ve been here. I, I think. Probably perception of people from around the world, myself included, Southeast Asian country. You would just think that it would be, not accepting of the lgbtq plus community, that it would be really conservative, that it would be a kind of hidden thing, especially coming from, you know, the US is so right wing in places, and then the UK and every, every, every Western country has.

Very right wing, vocal anti-gay elements. [00:10:00] So coming here, and again, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t see that vocal anti LGBTQ plus kind of people because it does just seem that people accept it. I’ve held before as well. There’s not really much discrimination. I’ve, I’ve worked in businesses, companies with openly gay people.

There’s never, it just doesn’t seem to be like an issue at all, whereas. I feel like in the UK and the US it’s probably more accepting now, but even when I was growing up, it wasn’t, am I right in that, in that opinion, or have I got it completely wrong as well?

Phuong Truong: I think you are correct. I mean, as, as you can feel that, that, that, that we actually treat other people in the way of oh, I don’t know you much, so there’s nothing I can say about you.

Even though you look gay, I actually a few times got teased, which is actually pretty nasty, I think like very fucking sexist [00:11:00] that like, that’s a bunch of two or three guys just walking down the street. I was walking against their, their, direction and they just like, oh, what is this boy or girl, let’s just go grab her boob to see if it’s a boy or a girl.

And I was like, I would swap it. But that was just like very rare, 10 years of being gay. This is like the maximum I can get. And I don’t think it’s about, I don’t think it’s about being gay, they just being rude. If you see somebody being, you know, they just rude because look, it wouldn’t matter who you

Niall (2): are, they would just be rude no matter what you look like.

Phuong Truong: They will have the same injuries of grabbing my boob or something like that. Right. So I, I think it’s the, the, the people you are around and, at some like specific situation that you might feel sexism in Vietnam. But in general, big time. I think we pretty chill. We quite a [00:12:00] very chill country that get intense sometimes, but we’re pretty too.

Niall (2): No, I mean, in my opinion, looking at it, it’s, that’s a good, a good description. Vitam is pretty chill, but very intense at other times in that you kind of see that play out quite often where things just kind of going along nicely and then all of a sudden it’s wow. It’s goes, it goes crazy. yeah, but no, no, it’s good.

And it’s, even, I’ve noticed recently, just very, very recently, more young people is especially. Coming. I, I guess as tr coming out as trans people, you know, I was in a shop recently and it was guy dressed as a girl. I think I’ve seen girls dressed as guy, not sure where they are on their gender journey or whatnot, but even that was a, just a, a year or two, well, I guess we’ve been locked up almost for two years, but I mean.

Pre pandemic and stuff. It wasn’t something that I noticed very much. Is that something that’s becoming more prominent in Vietnam as well? As it becomes more prominent around the world?

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Phuong Truong: Mm. Think it’s, well, so first of all, like people got locked up for a really long time, and I remember the first day that I went out to district one with my girlfriend just to have some lunch or something like that. And we were dressed up, so well [00:14:00] just oh, I can’t wait to put on my beautiful clothes again in, in your pajamas for months.

Yeah. Right. And then we just dress up so welllike model walking down the, the street and like we got stopped from like a, a young, journalist, group that said, oh, can we take the pictures of you and, and can you tell me like, is this like uncomfortable for you now to wearing such clothes?

And I was like, what You mean uncomfortable? Of course, if you compare to like the pajamas I wear in the last six months, you know, it’s pretty uncomfortable. Without an out on the street, you know, we just wanna show ourself. Hmm. I think after the covid time, you know, people would just pay more attention to themself and trying to show what it’s been hitting like all, all the time.

Also, because of Covid and also because of I mean, you survive a pandemic, you [00:15:00] know you still alive. You know? Why shouldn’t you be beautiful and unique to look at? I think that’s interesting. It’s going to be like keep rising. It just will. We just keep rising Vietnamese people don’t have such like a crazy sexism towards gay people and wearing whatever you like will be appreciated by someone.

So I think it’s going to be like. Vietnam is going to be like a fullon, gay country, just like Thailand. Less surgery.

Niall (2): Well, we’ll see where we go in in 20 years time. Right. But so I mentioned that at the beginning though. So we are talking about Saigon, which. I’ve made this mistake about a thousand times on this podcast and in real life where I often say Vietnam, X, Y, Z.

Talk about it. And then I realize I’m actually talking about Saigon because obviously Vietnam’s a massive country, huge amount of ethnic, very diverse, almost different languages. [00:16:00] So I, I always apply this label of Vietnam when I mean Saigon. So we have been for once a specified Saigon. So everything we’ve talked about, but how would that play out in the countryside, for example, or more rural regions like the Ong Delta or you know, would it be the same attitudes?

’cause I, I’ve heard stories as well about obviously, and you, you maybe have as well of people leaving these regions because they’re not going to be accepted there. So they come to Saigon, the big city, which is, makes a lot of sense. So how, how are the general Vietnamese attitude outside of Saigon, towards the LGBTQ plus community?

Phuong Truong: I understand that well, I mean, Saigon is not the only place in Vietnam and, and we also have the north and the same Joe and the South. Right. And I mean, I, I think it’s also, it’s also depends on how people react to new things. Because like we are gon like the first new thing, it will be like [00:17:00] what we, we get to know about first and, and, and we see it every day.

So it’s very easily and quickly become not a new thing anymore. But people in the rural area,in the, in, in the, the, the, the west T is like the west, right? The, the, the west of, of Vietnam, of the South. And also like in the middle, even like in Hano or you know, Hano, it’s like super traditional city.

It’s will be LGBT and the, and the gay people will be looked different for sure, because all the people, they, they haven’t seen much of us. The gay, the gay people are not, it’s not that they’re not manys there, but they are more hidden. Also because it’s strange to them, it’s new to them, to the gay person themself.

And obviously it’s new to everybody around in that rural area. So [00:18:00] the, the, the way that we are being accepted is a little bit less, but I don’t think that will, it will be way much less and way too much more intense. You know, people in the rural area, they usually like more. Like less aggressive, tied up, you know?

Yeah. We

Phuong Truong: are the one who in the, in gon we are, we are the one who have more experience and we like actually, if it comes to aggression and, and intensity, you know, we are the best. I love that way. Cd

Niall (2): I love that way of looking at it. It’s not, You know what it’s like in the, in the US the more rural you go, I think I, I would be, people might think I’m an idiot for saying this, but the more rural you go, the opinions become more conservative.

I was gonna say the IQs get lower, but that might be a bit harsh. Maybe the IQs don’t get lower, but the more rural you go in, in places like the States or Australia, the more conservative people come back. I [00:19:00] like your, the way you put that, it’s not really that people in Vietnam are necessarily more conservative, it’s just they’ve not.

Experienced it before. So it’s, it’s just, yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. So before we quickly move on to talk about another subject, quickly, give us your top lgbtq plus bars and venues to visit apart from Twist. Cafe Saigon. Go,

Phuong Truong: did the unicorn clothes, right? I would, I would highly, recommend fried coffee.

But I think it’s also like dry ball or something like that. On owned by Derek, a very, very gay guy, and he also married to a very, very weird, bizarre, and unique Vietnamese boy. His name is, uh. So, yeah, they married and they open like a, a bar on Dale Street, but I haven’t, I haven’t been there yet. I want to, I just don’t have the time to.

Yeah. And also it’s like betraying if I go to another [00:20:00] gay bar, you know,

Niall (2): betraying your own.

Phuong Truong: That’s how

Niall (2): I feel. No, he, Derek used to own, Derek used to own whiskey and whales. Right. Yes,

Phuong Truong: yes, yes. That, that’s Derek. So I would highly recommend, if you looking for a gay place to go, you should go to Derek and he’s one of the coolest person I have. No,

Niall (2): I’ve not met him. But yeah, I’ve heard good things.

I have a funny story about that. When my wife and I first arrived in Saigon Lake, like literally six years ago, we were looking for a bar to go to one night, and we lived near Boy Vien at the time. So we were around that area and we found this bar, I guess on Google Maps or whatnot called Whiskey and Wales.

And you know, we are like a whiskey as well, so we’re like, oh, let’s go check out this bar. So we went cool place and we was just talking. It’s just me and my wife and then she’s much more observant than I am and she, she’s like, Niall, I think this is a gable. I was like, what? Nah, didn’t, no paying no attention.

[00:21:00] What? And then she’s look, it’s all really good looking guys, either on their own or with another guy. They’re all really like just good looking gay guys. And I looked around the room and I was like, oh, maybe it is. Yeah. She’s I’m the only female here. So we Googled it and the first website that came up was like, I can’t remember the name of it, but it was like a really famous website that told you gay bars around like kind of Southeast Asia, like to, to give safe for, to give safe spaces for people traveling who are lgbtq plus to visit, like the number one was.

Whiskey in Wales, and they just kept going about how handsome the owner Derek was and

how

Niall (2): amazing it was. And we’re like, yeah, we are. I mean, so we had no problem with it, obviously. We were just like, oh yeah. We’ve, inadvertently walked into, one of the most popular gay bars in Saigon and it’s amazing.

Oh, that’s cool.

Niall (2): Yeah.

Phuong Truong: Unfortunately close out.

Niall (2): Yeah, I think it has. Yeah.

Phuong Truong: Yeah. But then that he opened a new, [00:22:00] pride Cafe bar. So that’s where I will go maybe, probably next week.

Niall (2): Awesome. Well, let’s move on to what we, what I mentioned in the beginning, the most awkward topic in the world to talk about, whether you’re an adult, a teenager, well, a teacher, sex education.

So I mentioned in the beginning, so just last week, some headlines have come up. It’s been a topic that’s been, I’ve read about it several times in, in Vietnam. The headline that came out came out just last week was, it’s not working. Sex, sex education makes teachers and students squirm and saying the teachers weren’t comfortable with it and the students weren’t comfortable with it.

So I, obviously, I have no experience of sex education in Vietnam. I, I barely had sex education when we were growing up. I mean, we had it in high school, but I mean, I don’t, it’s not, it was like putting condom on a banana or something like that. I don’t remember being in any. Great detail or, or of any use.

But [00:23:00] what, so first of all, I guess first question is what, for you growing up, what was sex education, if it, if it existed at all?

Phuong Truong: I think that the first officials sex education I had was, and where I, where I was, was when I was, I think 14 at school. And they, they, they gather like all of the student of ninth grade coming to the school hall.

And have 1 1, 1 woman, one teacher, woman, talking about okay, so the text is the enforce between men and women and using your secret part to put in your other secret part. And I was like, oh my God. The fun fact is that I know about porn. A full on porn watch since I was eight, just because I have, I have a brother that’s 60 years older than me, and he always bring [00:24:00] porn home and he doesn’t know how to hide it in our computer, so I just turn it on and watch it.

Not really understand much of it, but I, I, I, I, but then I thought that it’s like a. And I think it affect me until now that I just becoming a sexual person, which I like, no complaints. I love it. Not that I’m a sexual person, and, but I also find that because I have those experience from very young age all by myself, you know, that I learned about things like that when I was eight.

I think that helped me a little bit of. Fighting myself and protecting myself. You know, like when you, when when, when you were eight, you, you watch porn and then you realize that you like the woman more than the man.

Mm-hmm.

Phuong Truong: So that is how I think that it helps a little bit with my,sexuality path [00:25:00] also.

Like I know that also. So those are, those are the parts that you are not allowed to let anybody touch it, you know? And. and when you are grow up enough, then you can do it. And there’s a way to do it like many, many different ways there to intercourse. And, it’s and you can see there’s a protection, you know, in the middle.

I would say that you should do that to your kids and turn pro for them when they was eight. But maybe just a straightforward conversation and maybe a little bit of a demonstration. On video good enough for them. Plus like in this time, in this time of internet, you can’t stop them from reaching to whatever they wanna look for, you know?

And, but the, the point of sex education is not to prevent them to have sex, but to make sure that if the have sex is [00:26:00] safe for them.

Niall (2): Yeah. It must be intriguing, right? Because you saw you like in, in your case and then even in the cases I’ve read about online, if the teachers are then teaching them sex ed at full team, but they’ve maybe been accessing that kinda material online since they were 8, 9, 10, 12, it almost seems a bit redundant then, doesn’t it?

To then be trying to. Teach them about stuff that they’ve been watching for years and or whatnot. I don’t know what the solution is to it. Yeah,

Phuong Truong: I, I don’t know. I mean, we’re thinking of having kids, and I think it’s different for if you teach education for a boy, and it’s different if you teach the education for the girl to have sex education with like bulls and bugs, all d obviously, that both of them need to know how to protect themself.

But also they need to like their position in the sex [00:27:00] relationship, like a sexual relationship.okay, so I’m a boy, like what should I do? And okay, I’m a girl. What should I do? So we can both protect ourselves. Mm. And I don’t, I, I really don’t have any to like, how you should do it, because the way I learn it, you cannot learn it from, from that way.

Yeah. It’s not the, the, the, I think it’s not the most ideal way to learn about sex, but, but I am happy because I have that education, I have that fixed education from young age, and I know that from that moment on, I have less of a risk to make mistake.

Mm,

Phuong Truong: then get positive, nothing about sex, which I have met a few, but they also find it just, they just really late having sex in life.

Niall (2): So in this article it talks about the teachers being uncomfortable with it. Should teachers be uncomfortable teaching this stuff or is it, do you think it’s just the [00:28:00] material they’re teaching is wrong and makes it uncomfortable?

Phuong Truong: I think they, they like, like they, they, they, they. Feel uncomfortable because they think it’s weird when you talk to someone so young and, and about something that has been last forever in the humankind, you know, or like the nature, it’s just a normal thing.

It’s, it’s hard to start the story with and it’s ha it’s hard to pass the desire. To, oh, I really like my sex. You guys should my sex too. You know, and this is how I do this. Of course, it’s not going to go that fucking way, but, but that there’s oh, sex is a new thing. You know, it, it’s just like the way that they did it feel uncomfortable because they make it weird to themselves.

To themselves, not to the student. The student is [00:29:00] the, let’s say they at a white blank space. Or not actually, they probably know enough already. So you just need to jump in and confirm if those information are right or wrong. Thanks to your experience Yeah. Of being a teacher and being like grown. You know, just don’t be weird about it.

Like you make a joke. Yeah. And sometimes you make a joke. Well,

Niall (2): some clones, cls, sex educators, and back

Phuong Truong: then it’s,

Niall (2): it’s do that. It’s just such a difficult,

Phuong Truong: weird.

Niall (2): It’s such a difficult topic, right? Because, you know, awkward for parents, awkward for the students, awkward for the teachers, and, and I, it’s funny the point you make.

It’s not Hey, I love having sex. This is how I do it. You should try this. Like it’s, I mean, if I remember my sex education, it’s just literally okay, this is how you do this. There’s nothing about the desires or the wants or like the feelings or, or how to do or anything like that. It’s all just okay, this goes in here.

And then don’t let that stuff come out. ’cause then she’s [00:30:00] gonna have a baby and then it’s just very so sex is like the best thing in the world, but it makes it out to be like. Just this robotic kinda like, yeah, like

Phuong Truong: I feel like sometime like that the adults make that into something so sinful, something so, so taboo, you know?

Well that and,

Phuong Truong: and like you have to be honest to yourself that you personally and me also love sex. You know, we would die if we don’t have sex for a week or two, you know. You know, so why did he make it make, have them try it themselves, but like just tell them like, oh, before you try it, you should know about it.

And that’s it. You know? Everybody know, I mean like the kids, they have the iq, they print basically let fully function. Yeah. They know how to do [00:31:00] puzzle. So which PS will into which P? You don’t have to teach them like A, you have to put A and B. They already know that A, have to go to B. They don’t know about you know, so what we are trying to teach them is teach them just C, the C, the not getting pregnant thing or getting well pregnancy is not as scary.

I think also like I think now it’s like STD is more scary to me.

Niall (2): Yeah, maybe. Well, an STD can be for life. I guess. A kid can be for 18 years and then you can send them on their way. No, you made a good point there, which I just always forget, right. You said about it being sinful and as we’re talking though, so I’m not religious, never have been.

Religion has really almost played no part in my life. So I just forget about it. And you’ve just met them and you mentioned, I’m like, oh yeah, that’s why it’s weird because there’s so many religious people in this world who’ve made sex this weird, awkward [00:32:00] thing that we can’t talk about, and it’s taboo and it’s it’s just, I forget about that, that religion actually has the most, probably the biggest effect on all of this, especially from the western world.

I how. How would you say, ’cause we have, you have a big Catholic population here, right? Christian population, sorry. But mostly Buddhist and Vietnam. Right. How has that, how has the religious, how has the religious aspect had an element on sexual discourse in Vietnam? Mm.

Phuong Truong: I think it’s for, Vietnam is not really.

Religions related to sex, to be honest. But because of Buddhism, we believe in in karma. So what we believe the most is karma. If you do good thing, good thing happens to you. Mm-hmm. And if you do bad thing, bad things happen to you. So we just based on that one thing, one rules, one biggest rule to decide what we should do to our partner.

oh, you, we better [00:33:00] treat our partner nice. And if you treat them bad, you know, I think happen, you, I think so. And also if you cannot really have a, an abortion, you know, because like now it’s like a really bad thing, what happen to you? You know, you take away like somebody lies. So that is what, like freak, I think freak the, the, the table intercourse the most.

Like for me, I never have to worry about it no matter how hard I try, I cannot make up pregnant. But also because of that, they afraid to have sex because if it, if you pregnant, you cannot have an abortion and you have to keep the baby for 18 years. More, you know, but I don’t, I don’t think that like religions is something that, that stop us from having sex.

Really.

Niall (2): I think religion in western countries has a a lot to answer for on that. But so enough about sex, [00:34:00] sex education in Vietnam. Let’s move on to the final questions of. The podcast. We ask these at the end of every episode. They change every season. So these are the questions for season eight. So if you could travel anywhere in Vietnam for a week, where would you go?

And why? One week, right? Yeah. You have to stay there for a week.

Phuong Truong: I will go to, I think I’ll choose her.

Niall (2): Yeah,

Phuong Truong: because I, first of all, I haven’t been there and I know that it have like beautiful Thai thing. Yeah. And I love riding a motorbike up the mouth. So I think it has all of the elements that I like.

And usually it’s pretty cold. So the food when, when it’s cold, when you eat, it’s just better food, I think.

Niall (2): Yeah. I’m so, I’ve done it and it is just, it’s. The phrase, you know, like words cannot describe it is [00:35:00] made for this place. It, it’s so stunningly beautiful. There’s nothing I can say. I don’t know the vocabulary to describe how unbelievable it is.

That’s how unbelievable it is. So, yeah, you should absolutely go there. And you, and you’re right, like you don’t have a cafes down in you there. You have a cafe Su No. ’cause it’s, you gotta have a hot coffee when you’re up in the Cold Mountains. It’s so good. I would definitely recommend that for sure. Now we got tourists coming back to Vietnam.

Some of them are back already. I don’t know if you’ve met any yet. I thought I saw two people today. I didn’t recognize them. You feel like you recognize everyone in Vietnam because we’ve all been stuck here for two years. And I got my K Tam for lunch. And the reason I think there was a tourist is I’ve never seen anyone eat K Tam.

So, or this older white guy who’s holding the plate with one hand and then. Off the table and then kind of like eating it. It was just weird. I was looking at him and his wife and I was like, I’m pretty sure [00:36:00] they’re tourists. This is so exciting. But that’s the weirdest, the weirdest way I’ve ever seen anyone eat come.

So I was like, he’s no way. He’s a like a local expert, but So what advice would you give to any tourists coming back to Vietnam? Not

Phuong Truong: too much advice. It’s live your life. Survive a fucking pandemic. You should now. You just should live and enjoy every moment passing by. And I think Vietnam is a very enjoyable country.

That’s true. Very enjoyable. It’s so exciting. Three people talk to them. Don’t forget to smile. Yeah. And don’t forget to, to have every moment of your life worth it. That’s it.

Niall (2): I like it. Yeah. I mean, after these two years, that is a great advice. I. Now, what advice would you give to someone thinking about moving to Vietnam?

Phuong Truong: I don’t know. I never really moved to any, I never think of I will move to another [00:37:00] country, so I don’t know what advice give, but if you, if I can give like an advice, it’s you don’t mean people are very friendly and they, and we. We, we give you what we take. So if you smile to us, we smile to you. If you be nice to, we’ll be nice to you.

And that’s the, and that’s the the the point, you know, just be nice to people. Don’t be an asshole. That’s it.

Niall (2): Good advice for life in general, but also for moving to Vietnam. Don’t be an asshole. That’s definitely, definitely good. Now this one is, it can be a contentious question. For you, what do you think is the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Phuong Truong: So I think the, the biggest, difference between expat and immigrant are the purpose. So an expat, the purpose is to come to a country and work and be there for a while [00:38:00] until the next destination is show in their math. The in intentions of immigrant is that only Jews of country to live there, to be there and to find a work, a job there, and stay there.

So immigrant I guess is like some,the types of people that more likely become our people. An expert will always be expert. You leave.

Yeah,

Phuong Truong: like it’s a wife and a girlfriend, you know?

Niall (2): Yeah. So if you’re an expat, it’s like being a girlfriend and if it’s an immigrant, it’s like being a wife. That is a great way to put it.

I like that. Yeah. No, this is my favorite question I’ve ever asked on this podcast. If Vietnam was a person, how would you describe them?

Phuong Truong: Bit now with a person. I’m pretty sure it’s a she.

Niall (2): Yeah, that’s everyone says Yeah, [00:39:00] that she,

Phuong Truong: yeah, I’m sorry. It’s a she, and she’s quite fighty, but she’s also like super open-minded. She’s like very outgoing and she’s probably going to be like a Sona that she know, like when she needs to chill out. She put a joint in her mouth and she gels.

Niall (2): Awesome. You know, Julie, everyone that’s been on this season so far has said it’s definitely Vietnam would be a she. So it’s obviously a very, but it, because Vietnam is a very matriarchal, right? Like the women rule, the roost, Vietnamese women are so strong, they’re so powerful. so I definitely can see that.

And you are the second person to say it’s would be. BM would be a spicy person as well, so yeah. Awesome. As you start to conjure up this image in your head of what, what a, what that person would look like if Vietnam was a country, it’s awesome. Well fun. Thank you so, so much for joining me [00:40:00] today.

I really appreciate your time. Can you please tell anyone listening more about Twist Cafe? We didn’t even say the address. Where can they find you? Tell them more about your amazing cocktails. I need to come back in soon for another cocktail. Tell the people where to find it. Go.

Phuong Truong: All right, so Twist Coffee is at 80 a two.

The reason why you have to come that it’s fun, it’s charismatic just like me, and it has nice owner, nice staff, nice drink. And the drink that I recommend to try is vegan wine, Russian. It’s grapes, it’s it’s vegan, so it’s good for everybody. And also make you drunk.

Niall (2): So what is it? What’s a vegan white Russian almond milk.

So

Phuong Truong: usually like the white, white brush in, it’s gonna have cream in it, right? So we didn’t put cream in it. We put coconut cream, coconut milk in it, and I just pinned it up a little bit. [00:41:00] And coconut milks actually go really well with the kalo, with the coffee in the cocktail. It’s right, it’s something you should order.

Niall (2): Alright, well Fong, I got something to do right now, but once I’m finished I’m gonna hopefully stop by Twist Cafe this afternoon and have that coffee anytime

Phuong Truong: with,

Niall (2): I’ll hopefully see you soon. All right. Thank you so much Fong, and I will see you soon. You cheers. Bye. Alright, thank

Phuong Truong: you. Have good bye-Bye.

Niall (2): Thanks for listening to this episode of a Vietnam podcast by Seven Million Bikes. We hope you enjoy hearing our guest stories. If you haven’t already, please make sure to subscribe to the show and until non notifications so you never miss a new episode. Thank you so much to Lewis Wright, who made the Seven Million Bikes music and continues to support us in everywhere.

Also to our audio engineer Luke Dig Wheat for making sure each episode sounds amazing for you. Also, a big thanks to the Seven Million Bikes community. Thank you so much. It’s amazing to get to know you guys. [00:42:00] It’s amazing to see how much we’re growing and I look forward to seeing you at our next event.

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