Full Episode

[00:00:00]

Introduction to Sunday Sessions

Niall: to the first ever Sunday sessions a Vietnam podcast episode where we’re gonna have a bit more of a casual conversation. You’re gonna hear them every Sunday. And of course, we are Seven Million Bikes podcasts. We started at Seven Million Bikes.

So we’re starting this interview on a bike trip. Well, I say bike trip, we’re going to Taodien again, where we often go. And obviously I have the lovely Adrie Lopez Mackay with me. We got Biscuit in front of me. You won’t be able to see Biscuit. And we’re gonna go to Mekong Merchant for brunch. We haven’t been there in a long time, but it’s a famous, well known, long standing brunch place in Saigon.

Adrie’s First Impressions of Vietnam

Niall: well, we’re gonna have a topic to talk about, and today we want to talk to Adrie about what life is like in Vietnam for an American. so Adrie, what is life like in Vietnam? No, I’m kidding. What, but what were your perceptions of Oh, Vietnam, before you [00:01:00] ever came here, before you even thought about coming here as an American?

Adrie: I think, like most Americans, you only associate Vietnam or know much about Vietnam. Um, because of the, the war, obviously. Um, and beyond that,

I mean, Bye. I probably hadn’t really thought much about Vietnam until my sister applied for a job here, decided to, to relocate, um, in Vietnam.

Niall: Well, so growing up, I mean, what

2: you get taught in school about Vietnam? the Vietnam War? I

honestly don’t

Adrie: I honestly don’t remember. being, I don’t remember learning about the Vietnam War. It might have just been like a blip in, you know, history. Obviously you learn more about like the, the, how the war affected like policies and stuff um, at that time, and like who the presidents were, and what they were, doing and, and all that.

You, I think you learn more about the American side of it, and Vietnam is [00:02:00] just this distant place where the war took place. You obviously hear about the protests and resistance to the war domestically, but, I think a lot of people as well when they think of Southeast Asia, and I’m sure this is changing, I mean this is, keep in mind I’ve lived abroad overseas for

for

more than 10 years, so, when people thought of Southeast Asia it’s Thailand!

Everyone thinks of Thailand. And, I think Vietnam is more on the map now, but

I didn’t really know much about Vietnam at all.

2: when you’re coming from overseas, right, you just, you hear Vietnam, you think the Vietnam War, there’s

been so many movies about it, I guess, especially from our age group, right? We know all the, you know all the movies growing up, you know there was like large protests in America, you know it was a controversial war

But you don’t really know much else

about it, right?

Adrie: it,

true. I mean, the movie Good

Morning Vietnam.

Niall: Morning Canada. Yeah.

2: like Full Metal jacket.

Adrie: I’d never seen that until I was an adult, but.

Niall: But

2: then,

so, what were you? Did you have any perceptions?

We first came here [00:03:00] in 2015.

Niall: Yeah. Yeah.

2: on a vacation And I think from we’ve learned over the years that, you know, lots of Americans have perceptions and hesitations about coming to Vietnam. Did you have any of those feelings?

Adrie: I guess not initially because I, I spoke to my sister about it a lot. and it’s funny because I remember when she moved to Australia and we thought it was going to be, you know, just another Western place. And I remember having like a video call with her and like when she first moved to Australia and she’s like, what have I done?

And it was just like this crazy experience for her. Whereas when she moved to Vietnam, it was like, I think relatively easy. And, the mystique was taken, taken down, but I was still a bit kind of like, when we first came to visit, I was like, what do I pack? What are we doing? What’s it like there?

and I’d been to Southeast Asia before, So

it wasn’t like a totally new, like vibe or anything. But, when we came to visit, [00:04:00] obviously we were coming as tourists and had no idea what the future would hold that we would eventually become, residents of the country. I think it was hot .

The War Remnants Museum Experience

2: Well, so we got to Vietnam as a holiday. And then I think the biggest thing was going to the War Remnants Museum. And what did that make you feel as an American?

Going to the War Remnants Museum and finding out it’s not actually called the Vietnam War. Well,

Niall: yeah,

I think

Adrie: that’s what I was going to say in terms of, like, when it. kind of all clicked and changed for me. like, you have one perspective of history, you’re taught what your country wants you to know. And obviously for the American perspective, it’s a very dominant USA, USA perspective. And I don’t even know, I guess I don’t even know if I knew growing up that we had lost the Vietnam War because ,It’s not really even,

like taught like that. It’s just kind of like, oh, there was this war in Vietnam.

to be

A lot of people were against it and then it ended like, um,

2: fish.

called Wanda as well, right? Have you seen

that [00:05:00] movie? I dunno, I’ve seen it, One of my favorite scenes is near the end when Kevin Kline, I think he has, um, John Cleese in a barrel of concrete.

Something like that. And He’s basically making John Cleese is English and he’s making fun of Kevin Klein that they lost the war. And he’s like, we didn’t lose the war. And then eventually he’s like, okay it was a tie. Like that’s as far as he would admit. I think He wouldn’t admit.

that they lost it. [00:06:00] Going

Adrie: going to

the war remnants, Museum when you learn, like, the Vietnamese perspective of the war, and that it was actually called, or here it was called the War of American Atrocities,

because it

was so, exactly that, atrocious, and how, yeah, just, How devastating it was to the, country, the population, everyone that lived here.

And how it had lasting repercussions for decades afterwards. Um, it’s just absolutely appalling. And I remember, I think we went there on our first or second, maybe our second day, in the city, uh, in the country. And that totally painted my perspective for the next two and a half weeks when we traveled the country. And I remember being, like, a little bit afraid and asking my sister, like, what do people say when you tell them you’re American? like, they must be so [00:07:00] appalled, they must mistreat me. like, we did horrible things to them.

And she was like, no, people love Americans here. and I remember being really surprised about that. like, wait, what? Why do they love Americans? We’ve like, absolutely, like, ruined their, like,

And she

a long part of their history.

And she

was right. I mean, we traveled up the country, up and down the country. and Nowhere did we meet anyone. And still to this day, I don’t know that I’ve ever met anyone that was like, oh, you’re American. Like

you’re a

a bad person. It’s more like America, they’re good! which is, is refreshing, and surprising, but you learn the longer that you’re here.

The Vietnamese population is very young.

Cultural Reflections and Conversations

Adrie: , And so, I mean, we weren’t alive during

the war, and we’re in our 40s, so anyone that’s younger than us, and, you know, slightly older than us as well, they don’t really think about the war. It doesn’t color their memory and their [00:08:00] past. And what I have heard from younger Vietnamese people is that Their parents and their grandparents don’t really want to talk about it.

They, I mean, they all have this shared trauma of this massive, uh, war. Um, historical, you know, situation. But Yeah, I think, I think that’s quite similar to, I guess, Western, experiences when, like a lot of, you know, our grandparents were in World War II and you know, you have to get them in the right frame of mind or the right place or the right time to kind of talk about those topics.

A lot of them don’t wanna willingly share that information, so it’s, it’s traumatic. and you find that here as well.

2: Why do you think that Vietnamese People are so forgiving or accepting, because I think it’s a valid perception to have that you’ve come to this country that was destroyed in a lot of ways by American policy. Mm hmm. you would think that they’re not going to be accepting of Americans. And I think that played out in that terrible movie The Five Bloods. And [00:09:00] there’s a scene where

Adrie: so awful.

And Yeah, it paints Vietnam in such

an

Niall: an

Adrie: ignorant

Niall: play.

because apparently obviously an amazing director, but he hadn’t come here, he hadn’t really done any research. He’d just written the story. And so the story is, there’s five African American ex soldiers come back to Find their hidden treasure, which is, which is a ridiculous story in it, in itself.

Yeah.

Adrie: And the perspective is like frozen

in time, which a lot of people think. But until you come here in modern day Vietnam, you recognize that, like that perspective, maybe it held true 30 or 40 years ago, but it doesn’t, anymore. like there aren’t kids in the street looking at a foreigner running up to them and saying, G.

I.,

G. I., which is

2: that’s what I was going to say. That’s the worst scene in the movie. is The five guys are I don’t like, that. nightclub, a bar or something like that in downtown Saigon and then this little kid with like one leg missing on crutches runs up and starts going UGI, UGI and it’s just like, there’s, there are some crippled children maybe in the city begging for money but [00:10:00] really not that common at all and obviously the, they were trying to give the perception that this kid was maybe maimed by the war or something like that, I don’t know what perception they were trying to give, but there’s no young children running up to Americans.

in Saigon going UGI, UGI, like it’s just not doesn’t happen at all.

Dining and Drinks Discussion

2: So we’re at Mekong Merchant, so we’re gonna stop right now while we park and uh, get set up.

Niall: so these

are brand new episodes  we’re doing. Sunday Session episodes. You’re the

first guest. American in Vietnam. So we were just saying how,the perception though, that people think you’re going to come here is what was

Adrie: well, it depends on what you mean by hassle for that. Yeah, you might get hassled by vendors.

Niall: But not because you’re American.They were going you’re just a tourist. Yeah.

Adrie: When you asked on the [00:11:00] bike though, why do you think, or why do I think, that young Vietnamese, or Vietnamese in general, are so forgiving. Yeah, I think in general one of the reasonswe like being in Vietnam is because people areso friendly, people are sowelcoming Even if they don’t speak

your language. I mean, a lot of them do now, especially, The time that here, The English levelshave, justgone up and upand up, And the proficiency rate is so much. But even without that, when we first arrived in 2015, 2016, and I think even when my

sister was here in 2015, that’s just one of the reasons that people love it here. Is that, yeah, there are the occasional scams.But, it’s like any tourist place, right? Um, but on the whole, people here arejust very warm,Um, very welcoming, very friendly. And I think, um, That probably has something

to do with it. Like the culture as awhole is just a really, really,I know we often say that like a lot of [00:12:00] the reason why a lot of things are done the way they are done here is um, in partbecause of ties, right? for example, not shouting at people, saving face and all of those

kinds of things. I don’t know why they’re forgiving. I don’t knowif that answers that question.Niall: No, but I So, finished in 75? Of 2018 50 years ago

younger than 50, you weren’t even alive when the war was on Yeah, that’s

what I was saying Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, and then if you’re 60, you’re 10

years old So the people, the only people whofought in thewar really would have

been people

65,means you would be 15, so 66, 67, and older, and then they don’t want well.Yeah, I mean, so it’s quite weird, right, because, so I’m 42, you’re about thebetween the end of the Second World and when we were growing up

is about the same as the end of the war and young people, the [00:13:00] Vietnam War, and young people growing up now.

Yeah. And we knew about it. I don’t really remember, Like you said, you

Adrie: felt just, like, I mean, it was Not but it was a memory we had, but like a

Niall: memory, right? And it was only 20, and that finished what, 1945?

Adrie: Yeah, And whenwe watch like historical documentaries or accounts about it now, I’m just like completely flabbergasted that that even happened.

Like itwas like the deadliest conflicts in history.

Niall: it was only like 40 years before we were in primary school or high school, so same now if you’re a Vietnamese student, the American

war is only 40 years ago.

Adrie: we have to think about, howyou’re obviously taught like yourcountry perspective, and what wedo know about the Vietnamese perspective on their history and what students do learn Is that?

They have a very successful, conflict record, I suppose. I

Niall: I was going to go back to the, uh, the War Remnants Museum,

which is like a must for every tourist that comes to Saigon. And one of the funniest things, I love it. You know, where, I can’t remember years [00:14:00] ago, so if you go to the War Remnants Museum you get a sticker to say you’ve entered and some people forget to take them off and you walk around the city and you can just see people and I remember.You always know who’s the tourist.

I said to somebody one time, maybe I’d had a few drinks, I was like feeling funny.

I remember someone maybe was in a bar or somewhere because I wouldn’t have just said it to ‘them in the street but I was like oh, was it in Layla? I feel like it was inLayla. Yeah it might have been Yeah and I was like oh how is the War Remnants Museum and they were like how did you know? I went to the War Remnants Museum and I was like wow. You’ve still got the sticker on because everyone leaves the sticker on, but it is And read reviews of it, it’s the andmuseum, is as a foreigner, it’s massively

Adrie: It’s a really, really trying experience. Iwould sayWhen you’re gonna go it’s a solemn very sad. Um,I think most peopledon’t even careabout the fact [00:15:00] that the museum is not very good. Like, it’s not a good museum, like, in terms of the exhibits the things that you see and the things that you read are the things that you wear your dress.An antenna.

Niall: awful.Which are? We haven’t even said, we haven’t even said what is in the museum. Like, what is it that’s, like, so different and so shocking and so solemn. God, it’s been years

Adrie: since we went so I don’t really want to speak, but I mean you see photos ofthe things that were done, um, you hear about the I think deep into that Which of

Niall: the things I remember the most was, there was a graph of how much America had actually, like, funded the resistance, or not resistance, I don’t know again what youthey were massively the French operationyear before they[00:16:00] big one I took away from this stuff about the

Adrie: Yeah,Yeah. Well, that’s what I was thinkingof whenI said I don’t really want to think about it over our lovely weekend

Niall: Yeah. Yeah, If you don’t know what it is, look it up. It’s a real thing that happened that I don’t think was really reported in America much at all. Definitely not in the American, like, history

Adrie: No, I mean it definitely completely,like 180 my perspective on what Ididn’t know. I obviously learned a lot. It changed my perspective entirely as an American on the history of the war and maybe you just want to learn more. from perspectives as opposed to the one short one that we’re taught.

Niall: growing up, or maybe not growing up, but as a young adolescent or whatever, like history is always written by the victors, right?And this was the first time that life, and I was like now I know what this ever learn like Western perspectives,

[00:17:00] mostly from like we say movies, culture,like, a ton of it. Hollywood. I of the things you got taught in school though, right?But,that wasandnow this,

Yeah, drops that there’s like a whole other side to the, like, the my Lai Massacre, which learn a lot of the terrible,

Adrie: things And you do see a lot of people, they usually have people there that have been, um, affected by Agent Orange. So they might be like, um, have some sort ofdisability.

I think there’s part of the museum where they can sell the things that and that’s really awful to see as well.

Like, realize that the bombs that were dropped and the nerve agents that were used Decades and decades and decades ago have had such a lasting effect on people’s lives, even stilltoday, like, people are still being vulnerable with, [00:18:00] um, with deformities, and afflictions from that.

Niall: in America people are still born, so children of American soldiers.

Because it wasn’t just the Vietnamese that were exposed to So, feel aswe went there, can you remember,

Adrie: I would just, I remember being,I mean, I definitely cried.Yeah, itwas so difficult. It was such a sobering,really, reallysad experience.

Um, I felt awful. I don’t really know how else, I just remember feeling really awful. Uh, and then, like I said, it hit me. I know we’ve been there twice. We went there first as tourists and then we went there again when your parents was only a year, maybe like two years later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we haven’t actually been back since and we should go back just to refresh our memories. remember, like I said, it [00:19:00] painted my whole perception in that first two and a half weeks. Traveling Vietnam and, you know, everywhere I went, I was kind of like looking for, not like signs of the war, but the lack of signs of the war, I guess.

There’s a massive difference as well. The museum is in Southern Vietnam, which was on the side of the Americans. um, Hanoi is quite different in the north because they were the winning side on the side of the, um, so there is a bit of a north south divide that you do feel when you get to northern Vietnam a little bit.

Thank you. very much. our food. That was amazing. At their BBQ, Cooled Pork,

Niall: Eggs Benedict, which was And what was yours?

Adrie: juice? Chickpea waffle with halloumi.

Niall: [00:20:00] My Bloody Mary is going down nicely. so we were talking about War Remnants Museum, but we don’t want to talk too much about that. But if you’re coming to Vietnam, go check it out.

Be prepared, it isharrowing.

Adrie: And they close for lunch, so check the hours. So don’t go at like, 12 o’clock, because you’re going to have to wait two hours.

Niall: We already covered

American Identity and Global Perceptions

Niall: being an American is actually fine in Vietnam,

you don’t get discriminated against, is

weird that they love them, but I think because, I don’t know, because most

people around the world hate Americans nowadays,

Adrie: Yeah, people hate Americans because they’re loud. Have you ever

heard the level of hate people speak at? No, but I

Niall: think most people dislike Americans around the world because of foreign policy over the last 20 years dragging us into walls and causing

Adrie: just general

Niall: chaos across the world.

Adrie: I mean, I don’t generally ask people, why do you hate me?

Niall: Yeah, but you know they do. No, I

Adrie: think most Americans do realize that.

Niall: I don’t think they are hated, but America, the country is quite generally disliked. And I think it is mostly because of the foreign

Adrie: policy.

Again, I [00:21:00] don’t think a lot of Americans do realize that. We’re not

taught that.

We’re taught that America’s the greatest country in the world. yeah. yeah. I mean, I’m not going to say I don’t agree with that.

Niall: I don’t agree with that.

Adrie: But that’sjust like, Don’t say nationalism. That’s not the word I’m looking for. It

Niall: is? I mean, Americans are filled with propaganda and nationalismevery day. Pledge of Allegiance, you sing the national anthem before

Adrie: I am well aware of that. It’s not like other countries don’t have their versions of those things also.

Niall: I don’t know, do other countriesdo theysing the National Anthembefore a sporting event?I think that’s so weird.

Adrie: I have no idea, if I could really go to that many spoking events elsewhere, but I

Niall: mean, we do it before a game when the national team plays, so if Scotlandplays, or England, or France, like, the team singsthe National Anthem.But if Iwent to like a Rangers game, we don’t sing the National Anthem before the game,and they’relike, Yeah, we fucking love Scotland!It’s just like

Adrie: What’s wrong with pledging your allegiance to the flag?

Niall: Pledging your allegiance to anything is pretty [00:22:00] bad. in my opinion.

Adrie: mean like, it’s a citizen of the country. You have to have a certain level of pride in that. I don’t think you do. Well, you don’t have

Niall: mean, more like what’s it JohnLennon, like, imagine there’s no countries, imagine there’s no borders. Like, it’sjust a man made construct that there’s a line

Adrie: somewhere. Literally. Everything in life is a man made construct. We

are men, like, human kind, right? Yeah, but we create these things for a reason,

like, I know there’s a massive history behind why We probably pledged allegiance to this.

Niall: We couldn’t resist dessert. We got sticky toffeepudding, so excuse us while we eat.This looks amazing with popcorn and vanilla ice

cream. moving away from Americans, how they’re treated here

and whatnot. They And our people, she’s the easiest to understand.

I do love [00:23:00] hearing

Adrie: Um I do love hearing him be in the description with, like, a Scottish or a, like, Australian or Dutch accent. Another accent though, like, like there was, I had a student once that had, he clearly had learned like French first, we’re getting off topic and here at Aperol Spritz, gosh, we’re just going to be here all day Um, cheers. Right, little had.

Years and years ago, he clearly had learned French before. So he would pronounce his English R’s like a French person. Like he had a French, he was Vietnamese, but had a French accent when he was learning and speaking English. Yeah, it was really, really cute. I said cute, he was like a teenager. It wasn’t that small, but it was, it was still very So he was like a 5 year old or something?

No, it was, it was um, no, he was like probably a 14 year

Niall: My favorite one was, uh, a few years ago, well, when we first got here, remember I [00:24:00] taught that one class for like a year, year and a half, at Centre 3? Yeah. And we went back home, I think it was the first time we’d gone away for an extended time, and so a teacher covered my classes.

Yeah. And WhenI came back, she’s like, they sound so Scottish, they sound just like you. And I was like, what? No, they don’t. She’s like, no, they do. And then I went into the classroom, and I’d never noticed it before, and the first

thing I heard was this kid, Harry, going, what are you doing? And

To another kid, and I was like, oh my goodness, they do sound Scottish, they’ve,

Adrie: they picked up your phrase, what are you

Niall: you doing?

Yeah, because I’d normally walk in and they’d be messing about, and I’d be like, what are you doing? Sit down.

And you said you could always hear me being

Adrie: really serious. No, I remember the first time you ever, we were walking to class together and you went into your classroom and right as the door was shutting I heard, Sit down!

Niall: Yeah. These kids, they get a mixed bag of accents, eh? Because there’s teachers from

Adrie: all over the world. Well, like I say, like, I always kind of feel bad for the, like, little kids that get an Irish teacher and they have to learn three and tree, which for an Irish person literally is the same word. G Dreams! [00:25:00]

Niall: I know.And then you’ve got obviously South African and Russian teachers, Filipino teachers. know, it’s cool the kids have, like, different accents. Yeah. But they all want American accents.

Adrie: Not all, but a lot

Niall: do. You do have such a neutral accent.

Adrie: because, like, I mean, so much of, you know, Hollywood, and like, uh, Like a lot of famous young YouTubers and stuff are I think that’s

what they’re influenced by now, less than Hollywood.

Niall: a mass, it’s when you know the difference, you can tell the difference between like a LA accent or a Californian and like a Boston. Yeah, I don’t even know what a Florida accent sounds like, but you can tell, but to most untrained ears, American accents just all sound Yes.

Adrie: and most people A lot of people in cities have like neutral accents. Like, I have a pretty neutral accent. Yeah,

Yeah,

Niall: still disappointed at that.

Adrie: Despite being from Texas. Yeah,

Niall: yeah.

Adrie: Howdy

Niall: my last questions are about the practical, boring American living overseas. [00:26:00] Okay. So what is it like? Like health insurance?

Yeah, yeah, things

Adrie: Okay. So what is it Like Like health insurance?

Niall: do have health insurance? here. It’s a in want to ask about taxis because that’s uh, one wants to talk

No, nobody wants to. You don’t have an answer for that probably. Um, but what are some of the practical things? What more I was thinking along

the lines of as well is obviously there’s a big election coming up and I just get pounded with YouTube ads about how to vote as an American overseas And

Trump’s obviously been doing some lying as always lately about overseas Americans voting. Something to do with that. He’s probably going to claim that there’s 10 million.I read about it, there’s only 3 million Americans overseas.

Yeah, which is like 1 percent of the population about. military. Seven lot. Probably not. not.

Adrie: They don’t, I don’t think like military bases have that

Niall: much. Yeah. They

Adrie: are like overseas, but like yeah. But anyway, In terms of

Niall: voting [00:27:00] and things like thought you were going to ask logistically or practically like how do you watch American football and things like that.

Adrie: Well,

Niall: even so go on, even things like that. So if you’re an American living overseas, living in Vietnam. How do you access some things that, from back home, to try and create a sense of homeliness? I should

Adrie: say two things. Obviously we’ve lived overseas for quite some time, more than a decade. here for eight years. Some people are probably more diehard than others.

example, we used to watch really watch it as much or follow it as much Like our a sports bar that was willing to rest in peace game on, that was willing to show American football on a because it was quite a dead night, but in

any way. So we would not try to stay off social media on Mondays, so you wouldn’t get any of the updates of scores or anything like that, and then we’d go watch our games on a Monday night, which was really fun. Had a couple other Americans join us. Um, [00:28:00] I don’t know if

bars would do that. Yeah, yeah, I know an American football I don’t know

if people would force you to do that now, probably. but like, for example, I, most of the games are in the middle of the night, on a or an early, early Monday morning.

Monday morning, so I don’t really watch football like I used to, which is sad.

Niall: you can, I mean, we would use a VPN, or just a dodgy website basically, shh, don’t tell anyone. And stream the games. We had the NFL I was going to say, there

Adrie: was one or two years where we actually got Game Pass, because we were watching a lot of the

Niall: games. But that

Adrie: was because we had a different working schedule.

watch some of the games because we work from home.

Niall: But again, a lot of

Adrie: them the night, or

Niall: Yeah, yeah. But you can get NFL Game Pass if you’re a massive fan. and it does work over here. get a

Adrie: VPN and then get

Niall: But I think you could use it without a VPN and it was cheaper if I remember, because it was like the overseas NFL package.

Whereas if you put a VPN in America, you got charged more. Something like that.

[00:29:00] anyway. So you get your NFL fix. NFL

Adrie: tickets. But like unfortunately there’s a lot of sports I used to follow and watch in the US that I don’t anymore. Like I was talking to one of my American colleagues and he was like, Oh, do you follow hockey? Do you follow baseball? And I was like, I used to follow a little bit of baseball and

hockey fan, but basketball when I was in the U.S. and like, because of the time differences, I only have like bandwidth enough to follow like one major sport. So it’s Americans that follow most of the other ones that have kind of fallen by the wayside. Um, I think many Americans overseas. Like there’s overseas or abroad organizations, like Democrats equivalent that will organize, um,

Niall: will organize. No, Republicans They generally don’t leave their homes. That’s

Adrie: true.

Speaking of, like, nationalistic

Niall: Yeah, We’ve talked

about that before, though. We’ve noticed as we’ve traveled that. Most people you meet are left leaning and liberal,

and I think theorists.

Or conspiracy

which is still left leaning, [00:30:00] I guess. Um, kind

of depends, depends. doesn’t it? But anyway, you don’t meet many. I don’t, I can’t remember in all my time. ever meeting even like a right wing conservative British person or a right wing Republican. and I think

either they hide it, which they probably should, or they just don’t travel much because they’re so nationalistic and my country is the best, so I’m never leaving.

Or they travel,

Adrie: don’t like the

Niall: Yeah, yeah, those people that like, go and, you know, go to like a beautiful French restaurant in Vietnam and drink Aperol Spritzies, those kind of people.

Adrie: you can vote from

Um, you can register to vote from abroad. Not a problem.

Even things like, um, well, years ago again we watched this was in 2016, we uh, presidential debate, on a

Monday think. no, in Game On,

Niall: as well. And remember we went to a bar to watch one of the presidential debates. That wasn’t my [00:31:00] point.was

Adrie: that you can watch, those things. But like, for example, the vice presidential debate, didn’t watch that the other day because

Niall: Yeah, nobody watched that one.

Adrie: Well, that, and it was at like a really awkward time, during the work week. Yeah. And, Oh, I think other Americans are probably more adept and used to like shopping online and getting deliveries and stuff, but here you have to be wary of, import tax and they can kind of slap whatever they want to on your package coming into

the

Niall: We’ve

never really had that, not really ordered much. but I saw some, I saw somebody post last week that like my stuff is stuck in customs and they

want like a random of money. Yeah, so

Adrie: some people get lucky and order from websites overseas and get the delivery in They have to pay a little bit of money Like some people get really unlucky and have to pay a lot of money.

So my strategy has been just don’t order from overseas

so,

Shopping and Food Cravings

Adrie: yeah, I mean like in terms of if you miss stuff Like I know when I go home or if we Australia [00:32:00] or another Western country in the UK, whatever I usually try to buy things that Might be more expensive here or hard to get here. But again, having lived in many different places and been overseas for so many years, there’s a lot of products that I’ve just kind of like said, good riddance to, and I don’t.

Niall: Well, I was going to ask Greg. So we went back last January,

and what things do you miss that you maybe you didn’t, you’d forgotten about, and then we went back home and you’re like, oh yeah, like this, like uh What can you just not get here? What can you get here but it’s more expensive? And what brands and chains do you miss that I

Adrie: guess I’m mostly thinking of food, because that’s just me, but So there are Western grocery stores here that are a lot more common now than they used to be. So NM is a chain where you can get a lot of American stuff because they’re Western things. and then there’s the two shops on Hemney, also get a lot of American import products, like toilet,

some toiletries, but

food.

So, as a, as a, goldfish fanatic for my entire life, you can get regular, [00:33:00] plain and cheddar goldfish here, but you cannot get flavored blasted, so I got those when I was back in the US. yeah,

love cheddar blasted goldfish. You can get, like, all sorts of snacks and things now. You can get the American candy and stuff. But you have to go to special, like, shops. But it’s so weird, when we went back to the U. S. a year and a half ago, or almost two years ago now, I was just struck by the things.

Like, you go into a shop and you’re like, Oh, I just want to get some sweet tarts. And it’s like, now you can get hard, chewy, hard sweet tarts, Chewy sweet tarts, giant sweet tarts, like, sweet tart little balls. Like, there’s

just, and then Oreos. There’s like 50 different kinds of Oreos. And I’m like, oh my god. We were like aliens going into the first convenience store. Like, they probably thought we were, like,

had been trapped underground for ten years or something. We were like, how do you use this catch all machine? Like, oh my god, look, have you seen all the flavors of Chios?

I think that’s the biggest

crazy thing for me.

Like, makeup and beauty products and stuff, they’ve changed so much in the decades that I’ve been away, or more than 10 years that I’ve been away. I don’t even know what’s cool and popular anymore. But you [00:34:00] can get a lot of that stuff here. Like, we have now, will import western, like, toiletry and makeup brands and stuff like that.

So it’s not as hard to get, but if you something that you love, it’s always a good idea to stock up when you’re overseas. Or, if you’re, like me, I’m, I’m tan, and everyone here wants to be white, so it’s really hard for me to, like, I’ve never really tried to get, like, powder or foundation here, cause, or concealer.

Well, I have it in my colour. if you have darker skin, definitely get that when you’re home, or in the States, or get it shipped. then, if you’re bustier, like myself as well. To all you listeners who can’t see the video. get bras, underwear, that kind of things.

Yeah, I mean Westerners, which is generally bigger than the standard Vietnamese woman, so. and then shoes as well. I’m like just at

the cusp of  like the biggest size shoe that they make, so they make up to 39. But a Vietnamese 39 or

like a, [00:35:00] another European 39. Uh, which is, for people that don’t know what that means, it’s like about an 8 US.

And, sometimes I can, yeah, sometimes I can find, which is a 6

UK, I can find shoes that I can just barely kind of fit into, but on the whole, like, not usually, so, I have to go to special stores to like, find

Niall: that fit. Well, clothes have gotten way, way better, obviously, than when we first came here. There was barely an H& M. Now there’s like H& M, Zara. Old Navy,

better. It’s still

Adrie: like fashion,

Niall: like the options, but the funny thing I wanted to mention is though that people need to be watch out for when they come here.

They have something really strange that they have specific petite sizes

in Old Navy. Like you’re saying about the size of people are different. So you go to Old Navy, and you’re like, oh, that’s nice. Oh,

it’s my size, but it’s the petite version. Yeah,

Adrie: or like some stores. I think I’m in particular I’m thinking of like the sports stores like Adidas and Nike and stuff. They’ll have like Asian fit Which I didn’t even know was a thing, but you’ll go and you’ll like see the tag and it’s like specifically designed for Asian fit Which [00:36:00] generally means smaller.

Yeah, so

Niall: worked out

good for me, because when I go shopping, I’m like a large and an extra large. Now, triple XL sometimes, I’m like, man, I’m so big now

here, which I am bigger than a lot of

people,

Adrie: But if you care, I mean, I’m I’m at a height where I can kind of fit into petite sizes. I’m like 5, almost 5’5.

But if you’re like any taller than that, like petite sizes are gonna fit you slightly

differently and Asian

fits not gonna fit a tall person. So yeah, I think when you when I’m back home I Hate shopping. hate shopping under pressure And that’s what you have to do when you’re home.

Yeah,

Niall: because it’s like,

we’ve got to get this done. We have two times we’re going to go to the mall. Yeah, go buy

Adrie: buy some

Niall: shirts are the same for me, right?

Like, when I buy t shirts here, they’re normally never long enough, because I’m so tall and skinny. and then, yeah, when I go back, I’m like, I want to get t shirts. But so the one thing I wanted to add that I miss from America, which I thought you were going to bring [00:37:00] Dunkin Donuts, Krispy Kreme, Taco Bell,

Adrie: Well I was gonna say Chipotle, we got distracted by it. I was thinking of like restaurants.

My colleague, literally two days

ago, Just really want Chipotle. Like, you just can’t get

that here. You can get, you can get similar flavors, but like not,

Niall: They just haven’t taken off here.

Like Dunkin Donuts was here and now it’s just disappeared. I mean, that

makes sense. Cause subway’s garbage and bunnies are 10 times better. But

Adrie: if you want a Subway, you just want a Subway. you

Niall: want to eat fresh. Um,

Adrie: 5 footlong, come on. You have a

Niall: 5 footlong, right? Is that inflation now? Is that not a 10 a foot long? I don’t know. Has it changed?

Adrie: I remember when we were in the UK, we were surprised that there was

Niall: Subway cheap.

Adrie: Yeah, Yeah,

Niall: but yeah, things like that don’t exist here, right?

And you do, I miss Dunkin Donuts. I’d like a Dunkin Donuts iced coffee and a donut. I don’t know why, like, yeah, Starbucks is doing okay. McDonald’s is not really taking off. There’s a couple, but not, Yeah, the

big ones, [00:38:00] They’re just

not taking off, right? Like they’re around, but you know, when we went back, there’s like a McDonald’s everywhere.

Here, they’re like, just,

Adrie: because so many other, like, Asian chains are here as well, such a mixed

So you have, like, Korean chains, which you think You get KFC, you get KFC all the right way. We’ve never eaten that. Texas Chicken, which

is the same as Oh God, US? totally forgot. Church’s Chicken. Same as Church’s

Chicken.

Niall: What’s the other one? Popeye’s

Chicken? Popeye’s Chicken’s good.

So it does have like some of these chains. So it’s weird that like Dunkin Donuts hasn’t really taken over a donut

Adrie: Well

Niall: it didn’t take off, either. But overall what is it like as an

Political Climate and Safety Concerns

Niall: American living overseas? You lived overseas, you lived in Australia, New Zealand, now Vietnam.

Adrie: I  mean, it’s always around this time of the, well, political timeline where it’s kind of like, thank God I live overseas.

Like I [00:39:00] remember in 2016 when Trump was elected and it was just, I had friends messaging me being like, how do I move childrenbecause, like, they were, you know, dark skinned, whatever. Like. you know, I think it gets really, seeing just some of the, like, rhetoric and hate on Facebook and posts and like, friends and family, where I’m like, I really just don’t want to get into that.

the gun culture and the gun problem in America, I’m so don’t have to deal with that, think about it, a daily basis, although you hear about it so often, it almost is. I mean, I remember when we met back a year and a half ago, I was like, a bitch. It’s been so long since I’ve been back because of COVID.

I was scared to go back in terms of like the gun stuff. And I remember

thinking like, as soon as we got off the plane, it was like, you’re so lightened, excited to be back. You really don’t think about it. It’s not But I do distinctly remember going out in, um, in Austin one night and, and kind of being in a crowded bar.

And I just had a dark thought like, Oh my

Niall: what if something happens?

No, I had the [00:40:00] same. We were in a gay bar as well, so I was thinking, like, this could, this is something.

that Orlando’s. Yeah, like, I sure was gonna, I just felt so vulnerable for a minute.

Adrie: remember not saying anything to you, and neither one of us said anything until like the next day. We were like, I thought this, and he was like, Oh, I thought that too. And then sure enough, maybe like the next day, it was in, or maybe that same day, it was in the newspaper that in the suburbs of Austin there was a shooting, and there was some, in a night, um, a nightclub or a

night And someone died. And I was like, see, it was not even the far

fetched thought in my mind. And like, so I’m really thankful that I don’t have to think about that. As a, as a teacher, I don’t

work in a school, but I work in a university. and I mean, I if I had to go to school every day thinking or worrying about a child carrying a gun or an automatic weapon.

I don’t even know Like, my my brain can’t even. Like,[00:41:00]And

day. And the fact that people still to buy and carry those weapons is outrageous.

But anyway Yeah, on

a happy note, um, No,

but It is a reality. It’s not a reality. And you talk to other Americans, and that’s a similar sense of people. when you go home, you have to think about those things. And, I mean, one of the things we also didn’t really talk about is, like, practical things like transport. Um, not having a car. I haven’t had a car since I left the U.

S. Um, I remember selling my Jeep and it was really sad and I do miss sometimes. I mean, it’s been so long since I’ve driven, I don’t have a driver’s license. I think it’s a common expat problem because if you don’t have a, like, an address to get your license renewed, it often gets, often expires and then it’s really difficult to, Renew it, and that’s the situation I’m

in, that’s

Niall: We have, we have three driver’s licensesbetween us. I got two, one from New Zealand, one from the UK. They’re both expired. Which is

Adrie: going to present a problem when we go back to a car culture, like [00:42:00] New are we going to get around?

Niall: Yeah. Cause the last time my licensewas hadn’t expired yet, so we could get a car right? But if my license had expired, we’d have been

Adrie: Yeah, we Uber and Turbz.

Niall: Lift? No.

Adrie: No, not lift, where we got like, it was like the Uber of car. Oh, of car

Niall: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. hitch.

Adrie: no, no, no, that was adifferent one.

Niall: That was when we hitched a ride. Yeah, yeah, that was

Adrie: long distance Uber.but I drive a scooter, and it’s absolutely amazing, it’s so much fun. And you have

Niall: a license for that. And I do have a

Adrie: license for that. And, so yeah, I have to commute, which sucks, but, yeah, a

to drive, which is fine. because Grab, which is is very cheap for

Niall: So I think this is super interesting for [00:43:00] two reasons, because one, I just told you, one of the girls on my team, Huynh, was saying to me recently, she really likes when I’ve been doing these

episodes, kind of sharing more about my life in Saigon

and Vietnam, and I was like, oh, that’s really cool. She’s like, because she writes the blogs, follow them And,

I said, why do you like them more? Why do you like them more? Why do you like them? She said, because as a Vietnamese, it’s really interesting to learn what a foreigner thinks of life in our country. And I was like, that’s really interesting, right? Because we don’t really think so much about that. And she’s quite young as well.

She’s like in her early 20s. how would she know what a foreigner thinks of what life’s like living in their country? So for people like that who

Well, also she’s

Adrie: proficient in English, right? So she can understand this. Whereas like, yeah, you are, you and we only speak English. Yeah,

Niall: yeah.

Adrie: unfortunately. Yeah. You know, that’s more difficult to get that information.

Niall: So that’s cool for one reason, so hopefully people, who tune into this can get a bit of an insight into what it’s like to be an American living in Vietnam. But then the other reason is, People thinking of coming here as an [00:44:00] American, like you’ve had friends, I forgot about that, that was crazy, like friends being like, how can I move abroad, because I don’t want to be here, Or if you’re just

thinking of visiting here, advice.

Adrie: Well, we’ll see what happens in November. I mean, it could be another, like, massive accident from the U. S. like it was in 2016, 17.

Niall: Vietnam, but not too many of

Adrie: Yeah, well, it was just featured in like a New York Times post and article, like, specifically in Vietnam.

Oh,

Niall: Oh, sorry, I’m talking about a different one. What one were you were you talking

Adrie: about? I think it was showcasing Americans that lived abroad or overseas. And there was one picture and one story of an American girl. Oh, see that one. there were other cities and other countries in there as well.

Niall: The One I was referencing, did you see lots of people posted yesterday?

I think it was Time Out or some big publication posted. Like, Taodian, the neighborhood we’re in right now, is one of the coolest neighborhoods in the world. Yeah, I think it’s number

Adrie: Eighteen or something

Niall: Which is [00:45:00] so funny because it’s true, but not, well it is true, but we talk all the time about how it’s so different. This used to be likea little sleepy

unclean But it was cool even

Adrie: then. It was just less discovered. It’s just now so now it’s

Niall: like Vegas. it’s

Adrie: likeVegas. in

Niall: Saigon. That’s Bui Vien.

Adrie: That’s Bui Vien, yeah

Niall: that’s true, Boi Vien Saigon. Italian

Adrie: is cool.

Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

Niall: Well, this has been our first Sunday session. I hope you guys enjoyed it. We’re going to do more of these.

There’s more of a casual chat. If you want to do a Sunday session, if you want to go out for a drink, then let me know, get in touch. Remember join the Patreon community. As Adri keeps reminding me to tell you, go to patreon. com all slash your Vietnam podcast. You can follow us on social

media,

Exactly. You become

a Bap Sao Day if you join the Bap Patreon, VNM, a VNM podcast. Alright, well we’ll go finish these drinks, won’t we? You’re all, you’ve nearly finished yours already.

[00:46:00]